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! rowspan="4"| 15:10 - 15:50
! rowspan="4"| 15:10 - 15:50
| rowspan="4" align="center" style="background:bisque" | Discussion: <br> Analysis Software <br> collaborative Opportunities
| rowspan="4" align="center" style="background:bisque" | Discussion: <br> Analysis Software <br> collaborative Opportunities
| style="background:#dce6f1"| - Correlative Analysis and COST action - Leader: <b>Brian Pauw (BAM)</b>
| style="background:#dce6f1"| - Correlative Analysis and COST action - Leader: <b><strike>Brian Pauw (BAM)</strike> Sub: Tim Snow (Diamond)</b>
| style="background:#ffdc6d"| - Data and/or code repositories - Leader:  <b>Eliot Gann (NIST-NSLSII)</b>
| style="background:#ffdc6d"| - Data and/or code repositories - Leader:  <b>Eliot Gann (NIST-NSLSII)</b>
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| align="center" style="background:bisque"| discussion
| align="center" style="background:bisque"| discussion
| style="background:bisque" | Discussion on topics and organization of [[canSAS-XI]] - moderator: <b>Brian Pauw (BAM)</b>
| style="background:bisque" | Discussion on topics and organization of [[canSAS-XI]] - moderator: <b><strike>Brian Pauw (BAM)</strike></b>
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! 17:00

Revision as of 14:56, 21 November 2018

canSAS-X Workshop

  • date: Sunday, October 7, 2018
  • place: Peninsula Room C, Grand Traverse Resort & Spa, Traverse City, Michigan, USA
  • (just before SAS2018)



canSAS (Collective Action for Nomadic Small Angle Scatters) workshops and activities are self assembled/bootstrap efforts to provide a forum for SAS users and providers to come together to discuss common needs and issues, to learn from each others experiences, discuss current best practices, hear about emerging techniques, and importantly to identify areas where the field/state of the art could be improved by bringing together the people that are interested and able to work cooperatively to solve the problem (see canSAS-IX#Goals).

As of canSAS VIII in Tokai, Japan, the goal is to have a full independent workshop every three years, half way between the triennial SAS meetings, followed by some kind of forum at the SAS meetings themselves. These last have ranged in form from a half day session to just a lunch session to disseminate the status of activities. The intention is that the work agreed upon to solve current common problems will take place in the intervals between meetings, either at focused targeted workshops (see canSAS-2012), at ad-hoc gatherings of self-assembled working groups in person, or remotely.

At SAS2018 the organizers have arranged for space for sattelites the days prior and subsequent to the meeting proper and provided canSAS a day long block prior to the meeting itself.


The goals for this one-day workshop are to get a status report on activities kicked off at canSAS IX and since, prepare for the next full, free standing canSAS workshop to be held in Freising, Germany from 8 to 10 July 2019, and provide a discussion forum for current active topics.


time activity title
9:30 - 10:00 plenary Welcome and Introduction to canSAS - Paul Butler (NIST-CNR) and Adrian Rennie (Uppsala)
10:00 - 10:45 discussion Update/discussion on canSAS-IX activities - moderator: Grethe Jensen (University of Delaware/NIST-CNR)
10:45 - 11:15 break coffee
11:15 - 11:30 plenary July 2019 canSAS XI meeting update - Henrich Frielinghaus (Julich)
11:30 - 12:00 discussion NXcanSAS 2.0 discussion - Leader: Tim Snow (Diamond Light Source)
12:00 - 13:30 lunch ...
13:30 - 14:20 Discussion:
Standards/Round Robins
- ISO standards Development- Leader: Michael Krumrey (PTB)
- Geosciences validation and round robin - Leader: Paul Butler(NIST-CNR) for Larry Anovitz (ORNL)
- Other standards/round robin possiblities - Leader: Adrian Rennie (Uppsala Uni.)
14:20 - 14:35 discussion Education and Information: SAS video competition +... - moderator Pete Jemian (ANL)
14:35 - 14:40 Group Photo Outside if possible
14:40 - 15:10 break coffee
15:10 - 15:50 Discussion:
Analysis Software
collaborative Opportunities
- Correlative Analysis and COST action - Leader: Brian Pauw (BAM) Sub: Tim Snow (Diamond)
- Data and/or code repositories - Leader: Eliot Gann (NIST-NSLSII)
- Other opportunities (machine learning/MD simulations etc) - Leader: Paul Butler(NIST-CNR)
15:50 - 16:10 discussion Open Mic: Other topics of interest to attendees - moderator Andrew Jackson (ESS)
16:10 - 17:00 discussion Discussion on topics and organization of canSAS-XI - moderator: Brian Pauw (BAM)
17:00 ADJOURN Adjourn to SAS2018 Opening Reception

Venue and Registration

  • date: Sunday, October 7, 2018
  • place: Peninsula Room C, Grand Traverse Resort & Spa, Traverse City, Michigan, USA
  • (just before SAS2018)

Note that as a "grass roots" community effort there are generally no specific funds to support the local organizing expenses of such meetings. Instead these expenses will be covered through mostly small registration fees asked of each participant. (Expect $30 to cover the two coffee breaks). Lunch is not included.


canSAS-X participants.JPG

Meeting Topics

The topics being addressed at the canSAS X workshop are:

  • Status of ongoing activities
  • canSAS XI planning. Practical information at
  • NXcanSAS data formats and proposed improvements.
    • improve the description of how Q should be provided in the HDF5 file
    • Other needs?
  • Planning new round-robin samples/measurements/data treatment
    • Geosciences USAS: rocks/shales
    • particle sizing standards?
    • Other candidates?
  • Collaborative opportunities for advancing data analysis tools
    • COST action
    • International "networking" or "collaboration grants
    • Other
  • disseminate information about canSAS and to recruit active participants to canSAS activities
  • Other topics as might be of interest to those present - everyone is welcome to raise ideas as to what needs to be done and how to progress. There is a specific 'Open Mic' period in the timetable.

Report on the Meeting

Everyone is encouraged to contribute to the meeting report and to post slides and other relevant material.

  • The introduction to canSAS (P. Butler, A. Rennie) described briefly the activities and the success over the past 20 years since the first meeting in Grenoble, France. Particular aims for the day were reiterated with an emphasis that there are many on-going and new activities. Today there should be reports on status and plans for actions. A significant aim should be to prepare for the workshop next year in Freising, Germany (8-10 July 2019):

Introductory Slides. Presentation

It was noted that some people were delayed in their arrival and others would have to mention relevant themes.

  • The progress on tasks identified at canSAS-IX was reviewed. Grethe Jensen led this discussion.
  • The location and arrangements for canSAS-XI were presented by Henrich Frielinghaus. Slides

NXcanSAS 2.0

Following on from the ratification of the NXcanSAS standard since the last 'full' canSAS meeting it was decided that the primary focus of attention for a 1.1 or 2.0 revision would be focussed less on new functionality and, instead, clarifying the existing standard as different facilities are now exporting NXcanSAS data with subtly different interpretations. Therefore unification of the standard, before building upon it, appeared prudent.

Additionally discussion was had about:

  • Handling uncertainties, specifically highlighting scalers, dI and dQ datasets, and maintaining their provenance and propagation throughout correction, reduction and analysis
  • The rising quantities of metadata and where it should live
  • Handling multi-modal datasets within either:
    • One HDF container file - containing multiple, unique, entries conforming to their appropriate application definitions
    • Multiple HDF container files - either linked, or standalone, but retaining the ability to reference one another

The last topic also raised interesting questions and possibilities regarding intensifying efforts to analyse and refine multiple datasets from different analytical techniques against each other.

Correlative Analysis and COST Action

In April 2018 a COST action was submitted under the title of Combining Everything: Developing Rigorous Pan Metrological Correlative Analyses (Pan-CORAL). The aim of this action was to bring together a network of people to work on a series of information optimisers, qualifying and quantifying data present in a given dataset and then bringing together this information from multiple data sources into a global optimiser to provide a top-level view of the information gathered about a sample. Conversely, ultimately, the system would also be able to propose suitable analyses to conduct on a sample, given input from a user about what it is they may want to quantify.

Aside from the academic network, the proposal also had provision for a training and outreach network designed to engage the community and build a mass of users behind it for when the initial tranche of funding came to a close.

Unfortunately, the proposal failed the first submission with the authors and proposers awaiting its review documentation. It is anticipated that, subject to revisions, it will be resubmitted within the next 12 months.

Open Microphone Session

  • An open question was posed - given the potential to develop/build an algorithm that could sift through, and/or analyse, user data in real-time:
    • a) What would the canSAS group wish to get out of such an algorithm - how far should it go?
    • b) How would it be possible to prevent it becoming a black-box?
    • c) How would one display to users of such an algorithm that there is, usually, no one correct answer and that you may have to subsequently look at, or cross-correlate, a given result?

Local Organizing Committee

  • SAS2018 organizers

Program Committee

  • Paul Butler (NIST, US)
  • Adrian Rennie (Uppsala University, Sweden)
  • Pete Jemian (APS, US)
  • Henrich Frielinghaus (JCNS, Germany)
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